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	<title>Comments on: God&#8217;s Revelation is a Person</title>
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	<description>Seeking The Kingdom In All Things</description>
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		<title>By: Mark G.</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6697</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The centerpiece of the Evangelical service is definitely the Bible lesson, often where little snippets are woven together to support the minister&#039;s point; but this seems to me awfully shallow &amp; backwards for a number of reasons:

1) One of the biggest points that Protestants protest is that the institutional Church is a necessay &quot;mediator&quot; between God &amp; man - everyone now has free &amp; unfettered access to God through Jesus, who is, I suppose, revealed by the Bible.  The Bible, then, is necessarilly self-interpreting to all true seekers.  So, why go to listen to somebody else bang on about what they think the Bible means?  I only know one Protestant who actually practices what he preaches &amp; doesn&#039;t go to church!  

The Church says in response, &quot;How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they be sent...?&quot; Rom 10:14-15  (note how I cleverly used a Bible citation to support my point :)  The Church, then, is necessary to prepare those called for an encounter with Christ.

2) Another problem is that there is a curiously shucking off of responsibility to care for &amp; nurture one&#039;s own &quot;will of the heart,&quot; as it is called earlier in this passage.  This can happen anywhere, but one should not simply sit with hands out, hoping for someone to come along &amp; fill them with wisdom, happiness or whatever.  Each of us has a responsibility to seek out Christ for himself.  Again in Romans 10, &quot;The word is near you; even in your mouth &amp; in your heart.&quot; 

So, to put too much emphasis on Pastor Y&#039;s next sermon or even Father X&#039;s next homily as the source of your spiritual strength &amp; development is looking in the wrong place &amp; a squandering of your Baptismal re-birthright.  Then again, it was noted that many evangelicals aren&#039;t even baptized these days.

3) There is a bending of the worship back toward the people.  This is the &quot;re-make God in man&#039;s image&quot; to which you refered, Father.  Pulling out a few philosophical stops here, this is the essence of subjectivism - turning everything back to one self - Do I like this?  Does it please me?  Does it benefit me?  Thinking about everything in relation to &quot;me&quot; would not seem to be a very fertile soil for the metanoia to which we are called.

True subjectivity (a very good thing) allows me to be anchored in who I am so that I can reach out to other things in a well-ordered manner.  What is the real natrue of this thing?  What is its value?  What response on my part is due it?  Subjectivity - as opposed to subjectivism - allows me to approach things as they really are in themselves - even God.  A very necessary disposition for worship, I would say.

4) Evangelical worship is stuck in time.  Though the Bible is not (unless thou wantest to go into questions of translation), the trapping sure are.  The architecture is always modern, whatever that means.  The music is stuck time - generally with a drum beat that firmly grounds the musical time. Praise stuff from the 80&#039;s is refered to as &quot;classics.&quot;  It strives - &amp; I would say often suceeds - to be relevant, though only relevant to the audience de jour &amp; perhaps less to the eternal &amp; unchanging God supposedly for whom we gather to worship.  It caters exclusively to the now, particularly by delivering what in my experience is a sentimental, emotional overload, rather than reaching toward eternity, a binding of &quot;heart, mind, soul, &amp; strength&quot; to the object of our adoration.

5) It can, it seems, ignore Christ by placing too much value &amp; emphasis on a book about Christ, as strange as that seems &amp; as difficult as it to write.  Catholics believe in the presence of Christ in various mystical ways in worship, the pinnacle being physically fed with Christ by Christ himself.  Of course, Mass has two movements, with the proclamation of the Gospel reading itself being a great action of Christ among his people.  Anything less than this recognition of the presence of Christ in the sacred assembly is simply too little.

Note: every bit of this can &amp; does happen in Catholic parishes, too.  Further, because Catholic worship is more &quot;complicated,&quot; it potentially has more pits in which to fall.

All this said, I&#039;m very grateful for the many believing-but-separated brothers &amp; sisters in Christ.  I pray that they are faithful to their Christian vocation &amp; follow the lights given them as best as they are able.  I also pray that they come to the fullness of the Faith.

Sorry, Father.  You know I get a little whacky when I&#039;m traveling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The centerpiece of the Evangelical service is definitely the Bible lesson, often where little snippets are woven together to support the minister&#8217;s point; but this seems to me awfully shallow &amp; backwards for a number of reasons:</p>
<p>1) One of the biggest points that Protestants protest is that the institutional Church is a necessay &#8220;mediator&#8221; between God &amp; man &#8211; everyone now has free &amp; unfettered access to God through Jesus, who is, I suppose, revealed by the Bible.  The Bible, then, is necessarilly self-interpreting to all true seekers.  So, why go to listen to somebody else bang on about what they think the Bible means?  I only know one Protestant who actually practices what he preaches &amp; doesn&#8217;t go to church!  </p>
<p>The Church says in response, &#8220;How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they be sent&#8230;?&#8221; Rom 10:14-15  (note how I cleverly used a Bible citation to support my point <img src='http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   The Church, then, is necessary to prepare those called for an encounter with Christ.</p>
<p>2) Another problem is that there is a curiously shucking off of responsibility to care for &amp; nurture one&#8217;s own &#8220;will of the heart,&#8221; as it is called earlier in this passage.  This can happen anywhere, but one should not simply sit with hands out, hoping for someone to come along &amp; fill them with wisdom, happiness or whatever.  Each of us has a responsibility to seek out Christ for himself.  Again in Romans 10, &#8220;The word is near you; even in your mouth &amp; in your heart.&#8221; </p>
<p>So, to put too much emphasis on Pastor Y&#8217;s next sermon or even Father X&#8217;s next homily as the source of your spiritual strength &amp; development is looking in the wrong place &amp; a squandering of your Baptismal re-birthright.  Then again, it was noted that many evangelicals aren&#8217;t even baptized these days.</p>
<p>3) There is a bending of the worship back toward the people.  This is the &#8220;re-make God in man&#8217;s image&#8221; to which you refered, Father.  Pulling out a few philosophical stops here, this is the essence of subjectivism &#8211; turning everything back to one self &#8211; Do I like this?  Does it please me?  Does it benefit me?  Thinking about everything in relation to &#8220;me&#8221; would not seem to be a very fertile soil for the metanoia to which we are called.</p>
<p>True subjectivity (a very good thing) allows me to be anchored in who I am so that I can reach out to other things in a well-ordered manner.  What is the real natrue of this thing?  What is its value?  What response on my part is due it?  Subjectivity &#8211; as opposed to subjectivism &#8211; allows me to approach things as they really are in themselves &#8211; even God.  A very necessary disposition for worship, I would say.</p>
<p>4) Evangelical worship is stuck in time.  Though the Bible is not (unless thou wantest to go into questions of translation), the trapping sure are.  The architecture is always modern, whatever that means.  The music is stuck time &#8211; generally with a drum beat that firmly grounds the musical time. Praise stuff from the 80&#8242;s is refered to as &#8220;classics.&#8221;  It strives &#8211; &amp; I would say often suceeds &#8211; to be relevant, though only relevant to the audience de jour &amp; perhaps less to the eternal &amp; unchanging God supposedly for whom we gather to worship.  It caters exclusively to the now, particularly by delivering what in my experience is a sentimental, emotional overload, rather than reaching toward eternity, a binding of &#8220;heart, mind, soul, &amp; strength&#8221; to the object of our adoration.</p>
<p>5) It can, it seems, ignore Christ by placing too much value &amp; emphasis on a book about Christ, as strange as that seems &amp; as difficult as it to write.  Catholics believe in the presence of Christ in various mystical ways in worship, the pinnacle being physically fed with Christ by Christ himself.  Of course, Mass has two movements, with the proclamation of the Gospel reading itself being a great action of Christ among his people.  Anything less than this recognition of the presence of Christ in the sacred assembly is simply too little.</p>
<p>Note: every bit of this can &amp; does happen in Catholic parishes, too.  Further, because Catholic worship is more &#8220;complicated,&#8221; it potentially has more pits in which to fall.</p>
<p>All this said, I&#8217;m very grateful for the many believing-but-separated brothers &amp; sisters in Christ.  I pray that they are faithful to their Christian vocation &amp; follow the lights given them as best as they are able.  I also pray that they come to the fullness of the Faith.</p>
<p>Sorry, Father.  You know I get a little whacky when I&#8217;m traveling.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6539</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/?p=2905#comment-6539</guid>
		<description>First time poster here - I found your blog through Elizabeth Ester back when she was doing the Evangelical is Not Enough series.  

This post rang so true to me, and reminded me of a conversation I had with a close friend recently.  I can&#039;t remember the context, but I just remember her saying very passionately several times that &quot;the Word is so powerful, and the only thing that can change us.&quot;  She was not talking about the Word, Jesus Christ, God incarnate, but the Bible - the words of the Scriptures themselves.  It bothered me at the time, but I couldn&#039;t form any response at that moment.  Your post brought that back to mind, and I think what bothered me was this very issue.  Yes, God&#039;s Word, the Holy Scriptures are so important and powerful, but it&#039;s the person of Christ through the Holy Spirit that does the work in us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First time poster here &#8211; I found your blog through Elizabeth Ester back when she was doing the Evangelical is Not Enough series.  </p>
<p>This post rang so true to me, and reminded me of a conversation I had with a close friend recently.  I can&#8217;t remember the context, but I just remember her saying very passionately several times that &#8220;the Word is so powerful, and the only thing that can change us.&#8221;  She was not talking about the Word, Jesus Christ, God incarnate, but the Bible &#8211; the words of the Scriptures themselves.  It bothered me at the time, but I couldn&#8217;t form any response at that moment.  Your post brought that back to mind, and I think what bothered me was this very issue.  Yes, God&#8217;s Word, the Holy Scriptures are so important and powerful, but it&#8217;s the person of Christ through the Holy Spirit that does the work in us!</p>
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		<title>By: elizabeth mahlou</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6476</link>
		<dc:creator>elizabeth mahlou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/?p=2905#comment-6476</guid>
		<description>Oops, typo: &quot;he has now trouble&quot; should be &quot;he has NO trouble&quot; (what a difference one letter can make!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, typo: &#8220;he has now trouble&#8221; should be &#8220;he has NO trouble&#8221; (what a difference one letter can make!)</p>
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		<title>By: elizabeth mahlou</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6475</link>
		<dc:creator>elizabeth mahlou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/?p=2905#comment-6475</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of the part in the movie, Oh, God, where God tells John Denver (I forget his role name) to tell one of the leading big-church ministers that this is not what He wants or words to that effect.

The more I read about these kinds of churches, the more blessed I feel being where I am in a 200+ year old mission, replete with animal footprints in the uneven tiles, established by the Franciscans and holding on to Franciscan simplicity to this day, a church where our priest, Fr. Ed, does not hesitate to speak out and say &quot;no&quot; to parishioners, whether it is the manner in which they are treating the host. the behaviors they are exhibiting in their daily lives, or the fact that they do not come to confession frequently enough. He has now trouble filling the church, and some services (the Spanish Mass, the Latin Mass, and the Sunday 10:00 English Mass often spill out the door or at least are standing room only). Just like children deep-down want their parents to establish limits that they find hard to place on themselves due to peer pressure, I think adults want their spiritual leaders to do the same. To reverse the process for the sake of popularity does not provide what people need and likely what they truly want even if they, like so often children do, think that they want something entirely different. It is no kindness to cater to popularity and ignore the true needs of the people, just as it is no kindness to promote your child&#039;s popularity by letting him/her do dangerous things. (I think there are parents who don&#039;t &quot;get&quot; that and then wonder why they are estranged from their adult children, who are now with those peers who led them instead of their parents leading them.)

Hospitality is another thing, and it is important. I suppose in a big community, it is difficult to achieve. In our small community, everyone knows everyone, which is another blessing (although sometimes it can be a bane! ;0). Big or small, though, it really all boils down to love, doesn&#039;t it? And we are all supposed to love each other. I hope your project soars!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of the part in the movie, Oh, God, where God tells John Denver (I forget his role name) to tell one of the leading big-church ministers that this is not what He wants or words to that effect.</p>
<p>The more I read about these kinds of churches, the more blessed I feel being where I am in a 200+ year old mission, replete with animal footprints in the uneven tiles, established by the Franciscans and holding on to Franciscan simplicity to this day, a church where our priest, Fr. Ed, does not hesitate to speak out and say &#8220;no&#8221; to parishioners, whether it is the manner in which they are treating the host. the behaviors they are exhibiting in their daily lives, or the fact that they do not come to confession frequently enough. He has now trouble filling the church, and some services (the Spanish Mass, the Latin Mass, and the Sunday 10:00 English Mass often spill out the door or at least are standing room only). Just like children deep-down want their parents to establish limits that they find hard to place on themselves due to peer pressure, I think adults want their spiritual leaders to do the same. To reverse the process for the sake of popularity does not provide what people need and likely what they truly want even if they, like so often children do, think that they want something entirely different. It is no kindness to cater to popularity and ignore the true needs of the people, just as it is no kindness to promote your child&#8217;s popularity by letting him/her do dangerous things. (I think there are parents who don&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; that and then wonder why they are estranged from their adult children, who are now with those peers who led them instead of their parents leading them.)</p>
<p>Hospitality is another thing, and it is important. I suppose in a big community, it is difficult to achieve. In our small community, everyone knows everyone, which is another blessing (although sometimes it can be a bane! ;0). Big or small, though, it really all boils down to love, doesn&#8217;t it? And we are all supposed to love each other. I hope your project soars!</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth Ann</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6426</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/?p=2905#comment-6426</guid>
		<description>Fr. Mathis, I&#039;m with you on Divine Revelation!  I see the Word of God as Christ, Himself, not a book.

I have friends and relatives who are Bible Christians and/or Evangelical Christians.  In listening to what they have to say about the Bible I have gotten the impression that the Bible is treated something like an idol.  That is probably a shocking way to put it, though.  So, I want to make it clear that I revere the Bible.  I read it and study it.  I use it for lectio divina.   But I don&#039;t worship the Bible.  I worship God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I wish you well on your project to develop your parish hospitality.  That&#039;s a tough one.  Please post, from time to time, how that effort is progressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fr. Mathis, I&#8217;m with you on Divine Revelation!  I see the Word of God as Christ, Himself, not a book.</p>
<p>I have friends and relatives who are Bible Christians and/or Evangelical Christians.  In listening to what they have to say about the Bible I have gotten the impression that the Bible is treated something like an idol.  That is probably a shocking way to put it, though.  So, I want to make it clear that I revere the Bible.  I read it and study it.  I use it for lectio divina.   But I don&#8217;t worship the Bible.  I worship God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.</p>
<p>I wish you well on your project to develop your parish hospitality.  That&#8217;s a tough one.  Please post, from time to time, how that effort is progressing.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Christian Mathis</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6420</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Christian Mathis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 16:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/?p=2905#comment-6420</guid>
		<description>JIm,

I remember my conversation with the pastor mentioned in this post well. He was sad at the sense of loss of identity as well. I do remember complimenting him on how well they were able to reach out to others. It is my belief that we can learn from one another, but first we have to recognize and name our differences.

Thanks for the comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JIm,</p>
<p>I remember my conversation with the pastor mentioned in this post well. He was sad at the sense of loss of identity as well. I do remember complimenting him on how well they were able to reach out to others. It is my belief that we can learn from one another, but first we have to recognize and name our differences.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/2010/07/09/2905/comment-page-1/#comment-6415</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blessedisthekingdom.com/?p=2905#comment-6415</guid>
		<description>My 24-year-old daughter is no longer a practicing Catholic.  When my wife and I were in Louisville (KY) recently we went with her to the Southeast Christian Church--a &quot;mega&quot; church that welcomes 19,000+ people on a typical weekend.  The sanctuary is a multi-media center with several large screens and a fabulous sound system.  The music was superb and the pastor&#039;s sermon was inspiring.  However, after leaving the service I felt a sense of loss.  I agree that we need to be cautious at St. Thomas as we strive to ehance our hospitality and sense of welcoming while we protect the essence of our Catholic faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 24-year-old daughter is no longer a practicing Catholic.  When my wife and I were in Louisville (KY) recently we went with her to the Southeast Christian Church&#8211;a &#8220;mega&#8221; church that welcomes 19,000+ people on a typical weekend.  The sanctuary is a multi-media center with several large screens and a fabulous sound system.  The music was superb and the pastor&#8217;s sermon was inspiring.  However, after leaving the service I felt a sense of loss.  I agree that we need to be cautious at St. Thomas as we strive to ehance our hospitality and sense of welcoming while we protect the essence of our Catholic faith.</p>
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